Signs and Wonders

It might be argued that the rise of pentecostalism, in part, was a needed corrective to the scepticism so prevalant within modern, Enlightenment-influenced ways of thinking and perceiving reality.  The same could also be said of the "charismatic movement" and of the so-called "third wave" -- efforts to restore signs and wonders to the message of "good news" as taught by Jesus.

The importance of signs and wonders figures prominently in the Book of Acts, and seems to be indicative of the ministry of the early church.

Charles Talbert, in his commentary on Acts, draws attention to a chiasm that forms the the summary statement of Acts 2:41-47.  Here is the pattern as it was layed out:

vs.41 evangelization

.....vs.42 common life

..........vs.43 signs and wonders

.....vs.44-47a common life

vs.47b evangelization

Signs and wonders stand not only at the center of this chiastic structure, but also appear here as the third time the phenomenon is mentioned in chapter 2 (v.19, v.22, v.43). This clearly lifts the phrase to a place of special emphasis within the text. And the context suggests that signs and wonders were instrumental in the spreading of the gospel and the growth of the church.

But what about now?  With modernity slowing give place to postmodernity, what role might signs and wonders play in the missional efforts of the Church?  Although we recently discussed whether or not we have become too sophisticated for healing, signs and wonders here constitutes a much broader range of supernatural phenomenon, and therefore I'm wondering...

Are we afraid to let go and trust the Holy Spirit with anything supernatural? Were signs and wonders simply the "language" ancient peoples could best understand, but which is no longer true of people living in the 21st century? Or... do signs and wonders constitute a vital component in God's restorative plan for humankind, somewhat similar to how we must each rely on the Holy Spirit's help in our pursuit of sanctification/theosis?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

.

(illustration from Google images)

Comments

[Seraphim]

Signs & Wonders are always such a mixed bag. When Jesus was asked for a 'sign' he said it was a "wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign!"

and I've always been put off by "well if you are not healed, the problem is your FAITH!!!"

I think that there is a major difference in saying that God is still God and is not limited by time/space and can Heal whomever He wants (which I believe) and saying that signs & wonders happen all the time.

I was watching a difficult movie by Dawkins "Root of Evil" and to him it was/is Religion.. He took the view to Lourdes and how in the over 100 years there were only some 66 documents 'healings' even though there were millions upon millions of pilgrims...

I don't know. I tend to 'distrust' the gifts of the Spirit and would like to see more emphasis on the Fruit.

LYB

Seraphim

[Chris]

"Signs & Wonders are always such a mixed bag."

Yes! That's why this is a topic perfect for Paradoxology!

[Seraphim]

Yes! That's why this is a topic perfect for Paradoxology! Indeed. But how can something Jesus said that the 'wicked & adulterous' seek after be something that is 'integral' to the mission of the church?

Signs & Wonders following, says Mark 16. Following what?

I dunno.

LYB

Seraphim

[John Lunt]

I agree that the focus needs to be on the fruit of the Spirit, but I do not distrust the gifts of the Spirit. God doesn't give bad gifts, but unfortunately those gifts operate through flawed individuals.

If discipleship were what it should be and people functioned in the gifts with evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, especially with love, there wouldn't be many problems.

The problem with the idea that God is soveriegn and he heals who he wants is that healing and the other "gifts" of the Spirit are only exercised through faith. Also, Jesus told his disciples "you have not because you ask not."

I have had the priviledge of praying for people and God healed them. I've also been heartbroken when I've prayed for healing for people, and they weren't healed (at least not in this world.) I don't understand why some are healed and others are not and I certainly don't believe its always a "lack of faith" for the person being healed. My response is I believe and pray in faith believing, but in the end my faith is in God who loves that person a lot more than I do and will do what is best for them.

I believe we will see more of the supernatural God. I'm not so much in it for a "signs" sake, but for compassion who need the supernatural touch of God. I want to see healing and deliverance for people that are suffering. So while these things are signs and can have a powerful impact on non-believers. I believe these supernatural acts have even more power not as a sign for the sake of a sign, but as a sign of God's love for people.

My prayer used to be Lord let me take signs and wonders to the street. In the past year, my prayer has changed to Lord, let me love you with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and let me love my neigbor as myself.

I suspect, if we ever get to that point, we'll see miracles that haven't been seen since the Book of Acts. I do believe that this is part of God's restorative plan. I believe the cross was more than just getting to Heaven. It was real redemption. I believe God always intended men to live supernaturally, because while we are physical beings, we are also spiritual beings. I think Jesus, the Last Adam was a representation of the way we are supposed to live and that included signs and wonders, but never for the sake of "showing off" but for the purpose of helping and building up people.

[Seraphim]

I agree that the focus needs to be on the fruit of the Spirit, but I do not distrust the gifts of the Spirit

I don't distrust the fruit of the spirit either. But an Emphasis on them.

Been thru to much garbage man, Oneness Pentacostals, Church of God, Vineyard, Rhema - Word of Faith.....

I know God still intervenes 'supernaturally' in the lives of His children. I'm someone that believes in miracles.

I just have seen too much 'wild fire' to even want to try 'fire' again.

Peace on your Head

Seraphim

[John Lunt]

I understand. I left the charismatic church for a while myself, because of things like "gold dust." But I believe in it, and for me the key is getting first things first. Peace to you. - interesting you said Oneness pentecostal...Rhema, it sounds like some of your journey has been similar to mine. I'm having to still work through some of the stuff. But I want to hold on to the parts that are good even though there was lots of junk too. Peace to you, brother.

[Pastor Art]

Deuteronomy 13 speaks about signs and wonders as a heart test and that is in all probability what the hearers of Jesus’ statement thought about as he spoke. Moses through the Holy Spirit warned about the foundation of the teaching coming forth from the purveyor of the supernatural. Looking into Acts 2 the evangelism and community life is fashioned around “the Apostles’ teaching” verse 42, which as alluded to by Seraphim has become conspicuously void of Scripture’s standards.

Many avoid or overlook the “fruit” issues since fruit results from cultivation and in our glory based society takes to long and one often times has to get dirty, and as you touched on in the cry for virtue many leaders / teachers themselves need to check their vine 2nd Corth. 13:5.

Moreover as I posed this question to the denomination I am a part of, a charismatic group, are the gifts relegated only to tongues and healing are these the only signs and wonders. What about administration (having that in my gift mix would be a wonder indeed) is that not what Jesus molded by instructing the disciples to group the multitude being feed the loaves and fish. Is that not quite a sign and wonder one that we seem to overlook in that account. Jesus seems to exercise the gift of discernment constantly as He moves about the streets of His day. Who to heal who to teach who to have mercy upon even in the event of “catching” the adulterous woman. The teachers of the Law were calling Him on the carpet Jesus uses the gift of knowledge and wisdom knowing that the man needed to be there as well, and I could ramble on but which of these “lesser” gifts are not signs and wonders? Drama or reconciliation?
Pastor Art

[Ray]

I think that while 'gifts of the spirit' are in Scripture, and certainly there's no reason they "can't happen", they're not well attested in early Christian history. Usually the "spirit" gives much more practical gifts.

One thing to consider is that usually "prophecy" was a gift that was considered to be the gift of "prophetically expounding Scriptures". Sort of de-mystifies that one, although it also validates it's use in a more believable way.

I tend to think that demanding physical manifestations of 'signs and wonders' is more of a Pentacostal desire than something we can necessarily say is traditionally accounted for.

I suppose I'm with Seraphim on this one - magical gifts or not, who cares? We always have to 'test the spirits' to see if they're of God... or something else, and the litmus test isn't their 'power', but their correspondence to the proclamation of the crucified and resurrected Messiah.

[Chris]

John, thanks for posting your thoughts. Good stuff. Especially:

"I'm not so much in it for a "signs" sake, but for compassion who need the supernatural touch of God. I want to see healing and deliverance for people that are suffering."

Jesus often healed or helped people because he was "moved with compassion." We should strive for this same motivation more often. Teaching is obviously important, but sometimes people just need God to break in on them and help, don't you think?

[Chris]

"I just have seen too much 'wild fire' to even want to try 'fire' again."

Ahh, come on now. I don't hear you saying "I just have seen too much 'bad teaching' to even want to hear 'teaching' again." Of course not.

You've just got to start hangin' with the right crowd, Seraphim! :D

[Ken Tombley]

I think the emerging culture is all about signs and wonders. I hear them "reading omens" all the time. Little things they see happening to them that must be supernatural direction, or so they say. Yet often times they are self-fulfilling interpretations of everyday events.

But I don't know that miraculous manifestations are the best current cultural key to authenticate the gospel. That has been the case in the past, even the recent past, and I am sure it will be again some time soon. But for now I think there are other more contemplative, ongoing supernatural expressions that will emerge as the authenticators for todays culture. I would expect and do see more dreams and visions, more "quiet tongues", more quiet healings, more gifts of faith, etc.

All this is very supernatural, but necessarily very superstar. We really do need the fulness of the Holy Spirit but I think it will happen in new places rather than the "alter" at the end of public services.

[Seraphim]

Ahh, come on now. I don't hear you saying "I just have seen too much 'bad teaching' to even want to hear 'teaching' again." Of course not.

You've just got to start hangin' with the right crowd, Seraphim! :D

Touche' Well said.

I'll have to ponder on that awhile....

LYB

Seraphim

[Faith McCloud]

For all the debate, when ever I think about signs and wonders I think of moments I have experienced such as these:

-An angry/hurting/abandoned Jr. High boy yelling at his leader that "If there really was a God that he should prove it with thunder and lighting!" and not more than an hour later, during the hottest week that summer, came the most amazing storm I have ever witnessed.

-Or the time a poor little girl came over asking for peaches (who knows the last time she had eaten fruit) and we found a can of peaches in the very back of the cabinet even though no-one ever remembers buying any.

-Or think of the awe and wonder felt every time a scientist discovers yet another mystery of this creation.

-And perhaps the miraculous change God does in someone’s nature (such as a drunk turning sober or someone with an uncontrollable rage being tempered) could count as ‘signs and wonders’ too!

I love the quote (although I do not remember who said it… go figure): “We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” I do not like separating out supernatural from natural because I don’t think there has ever been a strict line between the two. Really, what could be more natural than for us to experience God at work in his creation.

Out of curiosity… what the heck is “gold dust”?

[John Lunt]

This is a great discussion. Faith, to answer your question. A few years ago, there was a "manifestation" of the spirit that involved the falling of gold dust in services. I honestly can't tell you if it was somethng God was doing, but I was definitely grieved when I heard people wanting to go here or there because they had heard about the Gold dust. When people start chasing a manifestation or a sign instead of Jesus. That's what all of this is about - Jesus. I love healings, the prophetic, all the "stuff." The Lord has allowed me to experience a lot of it, but I want to get closer to Jesus. Sorry, that was really a long long answer to your question. Forgive me please.

[Chris]

"We really do need the fulness of the Holy Spirit but I think it will happen in new places rather than the "altar" at the end of public services."

My goodness, can you imagine? Manifestations of the Holy Spirit, taking place right out in public, with people everywhere? ;)

[Chris]

Great examples, Faith. Thank you for sharing those with us.

Regarding natural vs. supernatural -- I would only say that what has often been termed "supernatural" should be considered "natural" to us, I suppose. Perhaps the fact that we have even needed to coin such a term, stands as somewhat of an indictment against us.

[DLE]

The number of Pentecostals/Charismatics in the world is now pegged at around 27% and still growing. In fact, in Africa, Asia, and South America it is primarily the only sect that is rapidly growing. When we talk about revival in the world today, that revival is coming through Pentecostals/Charismatics.

Part of this reason is that they are able to show people used to demonic shows of power that the power of the Lord trumps demonic activity. That still carries weight in parts of the world where the demonic is so readily apparent. The underground Church in China has greatly benefitted from "power evangelism" using the gifts of the Spirit.

As to Jesus warning that the only sign given would be the "sign of Jonah," what was the sign of Jonah? It is a sign intended for repentance, but more than this, it was the sign of Jesus' authority as the only prophet who would die and be raised up to life. Jesus knew that no other sign would suffice. Other prophets had raised the dead, but none of them had died and come back to life. To a Jewish generation who was familiar with the miracles of the prophets, this was the absolute sign.

But even Jesus Himself did miracles after saying that He would give no sign other than this. This is true in that miracles mean nothing without salvation after repentance. Jesus knew the hearts of those He spoke to about the sign of Jonah. He knew that they would not believe even if he did great signs. Only His own resurrection could break their stony hearts.

Are all people that far gone? Given how easily some people believe even the silliest belief systems, it would appear that some are more discerning than others. But the truth of Christ's resurrection paired with signs confirming this truth only enhance the veracity of Christ's claims. People in Third World countries who are ministering the Gospel understand this. We, however, are so anti-supernatural that we hardly believe anything at all. In some ways, we are like the very people that Jesus said would not believe anything, even signs.

[John Lunt]

By the way Chris. What's a free methodist? I've heard the term. Are you similar to the UMC - just interested? Again, lots of good points in this discussion. Thanks for bringing it up.

The point that the supernatural will occur differently, maybe out in public is valid. I believe it can be kind of God's calling card. Much of the church has tried to make God distant, an intellectual idea. The supernatural makes it up close and personal. I believe as God brings us closer to the unity of the faith, we will see more of the supernatural. It's his nature and I believe it will be expressed more through the church. Sadly, some will resist. But I think the manifestation of the supernatural will lead many to their first encounter with Jesus. What cannot happen however, is for us to let it be a pony show. New disciples have to be grounded in God's word and his presence at the same time. Otherwise we could end up with a spiritual circus that is not Glorifying to Jesus.

[Seraphim]

My thing is this. The kid that needed the storm to know God is real. Does every kid that needs that get that?

To immediately strip it all away for me.. if God doesn't answer EVERYBODY the same.. If He doesn't Heal everyone... If Signs and Wonders don't manifest for EVERYONE that asks, that believes, that cries out and weeps for a manifestation of his presense..

Is that really fair? Is that really GOD? Is that Him loving everyone the same?

Or do we need to (Ray and I agree wow) be more discerning? In Lite of I John 4 & 2 Thess 2:9?

God has moved, worked in my life. But wow.

& Chris, there is a big difference between Bad Teaching and Bad Experience. Bad teaching is easier to correct than an 'experience' that tells someone that Ken Copeland is a 'prophet of God' (insert gagging sound).

Love you guys and gals

Seraphim

[Fr Matt]

I believe that the emerging generations have been wired for the phenomenological, for mystery and magic. This is a natural outgrowth of the scepticism of postmodernity. Postmodern people are also looking for authenticity - that is if it cannot be expereincedand practiced it is in doubt. As a church in a postmodern context we have to present an authentic gosepl, one that begins first with the expereince of Love, and then with the embrace of the sacred mysteries, and finally with signs and wonders. What is not grounded in love is not authenticly Christian, what is not grounded in sacred mystery (Eucharist/baptism) is not authenticly the worshipping Church, and what is not "Charismatic/pentecostal" (ie Spirit filled/empowered witness) is not the genuine Gospel.

[Seraphim]

what is not grounded in sacred mystery (Eucharist/baptism) is not authenticly the worshipping Church, and what is not "Charismatic/pentecostal" (ie Spirit filled/empowered witness) is not the genuine Gospel

Fr. Matt, there you go crossing lines. While I know your made up denomination aspires to be little o orthodox, even the big O Orthodox will not say where the church, she is not.

Jesus is the Gospel. He came to make the unacceptable acceptable. The unloved loved. Those that could not attain perfection he gave his own perfection for.

I'd be careful saying what/who is not and where/who is not the church.

"Not all who belong to God belong to the church and not all who belong to the church belong to God." St. Augustine

[Faith McCloud]

"Is that really fair? Is that really GOD? Is that Him loving everyone the same?"

Seraphim, a response like that makes me smile and think of my little boy having a fit and yelling "It's not fair". I know you mean it good naturedly, but how can I defend such a God moment! Its a mystery to myself! Why take something so beautiful and life changing for every person who was caught up in that wonder and say it can't possibly be from God because its not fair by our own limited judgments.

And remember, this is coming from an emerging Fundy who knows little to nothing about charismatics, healings, or gold dust... well now I know a little about gold dust thanx to John. *smile*

[Seraphim]

Seraphim, a response like that makes me smile and think of my little boy having a fit and yelling "It's not fair". I know you mean it good naturedly, but how can I defend such a God moment! Its a mystery to myself! Why take something so beautiful and life changing for every person who was caught up in that wonder and say it can't possibly be from God because its not fair by our own limited judgments.

Here it is. It's akin to the 'problem of pain' with me. My daughter the Jade was a miracle child. Prayed over constantly from conception to birth. Watched faithfully by myself and my bride always.

My son. Bobby. Firstborn male child to open the womb. Holy to God.

In a moment of non-vigilence Bobby @ age 15 molests the Jade @ age 5. Where was God? Where were my prayers? Her 'guardian angels?'... So I don't want to hear that 'Signs and Wonders' are the norm for the 'Christian'. Cause then I have to ask (and I've asked Him) where was He? Why?

(afterthought: The Jade is almost 10 now and far better than I. Bobby was incarcerated and may get out this year.... continue to pray for them and me and the family.)

Seraphim

[Chris]

"I believe that the emerging generations have been wired for the phenomenological, for mystery and magic. This is a natural outgrowth of the scepticism of postmodernity."

So true... and so refreshing, I must say.

"that is if it cannot be expereinced and practiced it is in doubt."

True as well. But this also represents a challenge when it comes to faith (i.e. assurance of what cannot be seen or necessarily experienced in physical/tangible ways).

"What is not grounded in love is not authenticly Christian, what is not grounded in sacred mystery (Eucharist/baptism) is not authenticly the worshipping Church, and what is not "Charismatic/pentecostal" (ie Spirit filled/empowered witness) is not the genuine Gospel."

By "authenticly", do you mean "in accord with God's intention & design", or are you suggesting an "ipso facto" reality?

[Chris]

"While I know your made up denomination aspires to be little o orthodox,"

Seraphim, this seems to be rather demeaning.